I got the same, extremely good recommendation. Some Guy: thank you feels way too small. I’ve had my own experience with the Divine and the overlap with what I just read…words are not enough. Mystical, practically, wholly Good. Thank you for sharing your experience.
Agnostic, and ditto. I seem to collect other people’s accounts of the more-than-physical, and (I hope this doesn’t sound like I’m not taking this seriously) this is top-shelf stuff. Some Guy: thanks for helping us all flesh out our humanity.
I'm at work right now, and I can't stop crying. I just can't. I'm doing that weird thing women do when they don't want their mascara to run- holding my fingers under my eyes. Gah!!
I think I saw an angel once, when I was working in the hospital as a nursing student. I used to work in the mornings, doing vitals and baths before going to class at 9:00. I would go back to the oncology unit around 8:00 p.m., this time reversing it and getting everyone settled for the night.
Anyway- we had a new admit from the post partum unit. I was told she had just had a stillborn baby and been diagnosed with leukemia. I went into her room to get her vital signs, and when I looked at her, I was struck with terror. She was sitting at the edge of her bed, and sort of looked like she was glowing. And I felt like you would if you came upon an alien. I knew she was Other- that she was powerful and holy. I bolted out of the room. I still can't explain this madness. I don't know why I thought those things.
After gathering myself, I went back in. She looked more like a regular woman this time, and had a small smile. She was still intimidating- but it was manageable. She had dialed it down.
The next time I came into work, she was gone. Her name was Regina.
Thank you for sharing this. I am constantly hungry for these kinds of stories, exactly these kinds. Full of credulity and doubt and wonder and frustration. I have not had an experience like this, but I’ve held fast the hope that they are real regardless. When I read words like the ones you wrought with such integrity and humility and awareness, that hope gets new strength.
I believe more stories like these will emerge, increasingly many, until the apologies start to feel less necessary, until transcendence itself starts to seem almost normal, almost inevitable. At least for those who have eyes to see, and ears to hear.
Thanks J.E. It was an odd thing. Though I strangely hope it doesn’t become too common. That’s what I felt anyway, that the once was enough for a lifetime and I’d lose something by seeking it out again and again.
That makes sense. I was more thinking in terms of other people sharing similar experiences, so that it becomes less culturally awkward to talk about them.
Although I just don’t know how to transition still between “Who wants another flapjack” and “Yeah, so who wants to talk about experiences of the divine?” But I think I just need to accept He is in everything, even Flapjacks.
Incredible piece. I have also felt the presence of God, and felt and feel much the same way about it. I never argue about it with anyone, why would I? It's like arguing with someone who is colorblind that blue and green are different colors. If you've seen, then you've seen. I can't explain it either, but it changed my life, and, like you, I do connect the awe I felt when my son was born to the experience.
I also felt comfort in knowing that I was always held, even in my darkest moments. It's difficult to talk about becuase it sounds like madness, but I can't deny what I experienced.
I’ve just repeatedly found there aren’t great conversational bridges to it so I don’t bring it up much. It’s also hard to transition away from it to “okay what restaurant are we going to?”
But then I try to remind myself that the small things are what matter and we are here because they’re actually big things at root and it helps. I don’t know if that directly touches on some of what you wrote but trying to keep up with it all.
The joy in the small things ("That was a great choice of restaurant!") is because they are all part of the big everything. The only genuinely small thing is a divisive, exclusive mindset 💜💚🧡
I am an old lady by outside indicators, 81 and wrinkles earned, who is about to embark on a new adventure... moving, because of death of spouse, from a 20 plus year home in S Idaho to an island near Seattle in order to be nearer family. I am fit. I am moving because one day I won't be fit, and it would be a burden to my family then to move me. Until reading your piece, I felt sorry for myself. Not now. Thank you. Now I will look differently when on island I see the blue water surrounding us all, that in our hands becomes the color of the palm.
Thank you. I borrow one other phrase that you might know from a book so entitled. You have reminded me that we are The Color of Water. Thank you.
I’m out on the Pacific Peninsula so we’ll be neighbors when you get out this way. My sincere condolences to you on the loss of a husband. I worry about that a lot for my own wife although I’m still young, my guess is she’s going to the longevity over me. I think our lives here on this world are real and our pain is real, but it helps me to remember the things I can see aren’t all the things there are. Your comment in particular really makes me feel this was worth writing. I still have all kinds of questions about what any of this stuff is or really means, but I’m reading my Bible more and more these days and trying to talk my wife into picking a church. I know we’re all supposed to be together, be neighbors, and work through it together. Whatever else, that’s the biggest piece.
Nadia Bolz-Weber suggested this read. I'm happy to have obliged. I experienced similar to you. Your descriptive talent is admirable. This God visit was in a night time Al-anon meeting in the annex of a Lutheran church in Hilo, Hawaii. I was in a children's classroom with crayon art and finger paintings on walls above the book shelves. "Experienced" is not the best adjective. I "lived" similar. Not an NDE and not a beloved ancestor reaching out but a timeless, space-less gathering of gold light, sparkling light, vibrant and full of Love. God pierced the veil but I didn't come to that conclusion until years later. This benevolent, accepting light took over from the light of the florescent bulbs in that evening meeting where fourteen of us gathered to heal from our brokenness. The Light was Love Itself. At the time I didn't know I was experiencing God.
Like you, my childhood was gasoline poured on a dumpster fire and I had been stuck inside. When I was 12, just before my Barmitzvah, I walked out to the end of an ocean jetty. It was made of huge boulders piled up to prevent erosion in a town called Carlsbad. I walked and jumped over the gaps until I found the end where the waves crashed and I looked up and told God to F*ck off. I had been molested by my older step brother and neither parent, though both knowing what happened, came to my side. I became an atheist. Life didn't get better. It stayed miserably the same until I left for college.
In that 12-Step room was a woman who was my cosmic mirror. No other way to explain it. When she put herself down by saying things like, "I'm so stupid", I would say, in my mind, "Judy, you're not stupid. You are a child of God". As I said those words, they reverberated back to me as, "Robert, your not stupid, you're a child of God". Then I saw Angels on either side of her. They were, now that I have had time to reflect, a mirror image of myself. They were My Angels. I didn't have money for a therapist but I did think I was going insane.
Just before this happened, I had recovered from a rare parasite that had invaded my spinal chord and brain. I survived but painfully so. Then, unrelated to that illness, while driving one night from Hilo town to Pahoa, the bright idea of running off the road and killing myself seemed like a great idea. Probably the darkest moment of my life. Three times I went to that darkest of black places and three times I was pulled out wondering how I got there in the first place. Six months later God broke silence and pierced the veil to let me know that perfection is not what we suppose it to be.
Thank you for your essay. Just because I had this illumination doesn't mean I can call it back. It is a remembrance and like any blissful engagement, it likes to be bolstered by other's stories of Love reaching out and squeezing our hearts.
Hey. I’m a follower of Jesus and I just want to say- none of this is weird to me. At all.
I think smart progressive people (generally my folks) do ourselves a huge disservice by creating a mental framework of ‘the supernatural is for those folks not us’.
I loved reading your experience.
And. . .There’s more out there. There are other smart skeptical people who’ve had visions and experienced signs and wonders. There’s a lot of good life. Abundant life. And pain. And love.
Seek and you’ll find. I wonder if something (maybe the same something that led you to remind your readers how embarrassing and weird this all is,countless times in this essay?) is keeping you from seeking.
Praying for that ‘something’ to get quieter and for the seeking urge to get stronger. Because . . .yeah. Just because.
Understood how the embarrassment and constant apologies might seem off but tried to write this as I feel it day to day, warts and all. It is just feels like a strange thing to bring up over pancakes when everyone is talking about movies or something. I’m still looking, I promise. Ol’ Josh has his hooks in me pretty deep at this point and just trying to find one of his build sites so I can start taking the family there.
You know, something that really helped me sort through some things—as a person who was always a bit too nerdy for her family’s take on faith—was finding the Eastern Orthodox tradition. I mean, I’m not particularly drawn to the actual experience of the services, and I don’t agree with their stance on women and a whole bunch of other trivial things…
But there’s a depth of scholarship there, along with an unembarrassed take on the supernatural that just really spoke to me. The Lord of Spirits podcast was a goldmine for me.
Also- very different but maybe also possibly helpful? there are amazing voices coming out of some of the African evangelical churches- sure there is some chaff to sort out but there’s amazing wheat too, that’s like, woah. For instance John Mulinde is someone I just can’t ignore.
Anyway. . .wishing you the best on your journey with Josh. He’s. . .the real deal.
Hey! So I wanted to name that those folks I named were helpful to me specifically regarding the absolute wildness of the supernatural. Which might not be what you want more of. A bit of the deep end, so to speak! But In terms of just good thoughtful people wrestling with big ideas of the divine,
I wonder if you’d like Jonathan Pageau’s The Symbolic World. And David Bentley Hart has some stuff on YouTube. I realize I’m recommending all these E. orthodox guys even though I am Protestant (Free Methodist, to be specific)- go figure.
The only other thing I will say is that people are everywhere. . .and we are pretty universally messed up. So it can be hard to find a ‘build site’ you love or even find material online that you love without exception. Don’t let it discourage you. Remember everyone else is also just trying to get to know Him, in their own way, and that I truly believe we grow by learning to love. And I’ve come to believe that sometimes love for ‘thinking types’ just means learning to be still and be taught, even if you know you don’t fully agree with the teacher on some cognitive level. That there’s something happening in that humility of just showing up and trying to learn what they have to offer- that maybe helps us become a bit more like Him after all.
Okay, I’m putting David Bentley Hart on right now before my son wakes up. So just know I’m listening to a conference about if the mind is a machine.
And you’re right. I need to be less of a jerk and just bite the bullet and go. There’s a Catholic Church my mother in law goes to that she would probably just love for us to go to as well and I’ll talk to my wife about it when she gets up. I get way too up in my head about this stuff.
I love Jonathan Pageau! His podcast, Rod Dreher (author whose Substack sent me here), the Pints with Aquinas podcast, and David Bentley Hart's translation of the New Testament are what led me to revert to Catholicism after being some weird mix of New Age Jungian who's kind of into Jesus.
I will definitely check those folks out. Are there any good podcasts you’d recommend that they’re on? I ingest a lot of things via audio these days because I’m chasing around a toddler.
Ancient Faith Radio is a wonderful free source for all things Orthodox. These guys are the original church of Josh; I credit them with saving my sanity a few years ago. And your story left me in tears (good tears). Keep writing!
You might look for a United Church of Christ (formerly Congregational). I discovered them a few years ago and was drawn to their progressive stance on social justice issues.
With me, it was also a close relative. For many years. I was a toddler. My (biological) parents were too screwed up to notice - even after a few hospital visits. Doctors missed it too. At eight, I had an experience I cannot explain but I think you will understand. I was surrounded by light, and I heard a voice say, "Don't worry; you are mine". I had no idea what it meant, but I deep down just KNEW that I was loved, and that I was going to be all right. I grew up Catholic. Church and eight years of parochial school did nothing for me. I thought the Church was a joke.
My adolescent years were, to put it mildly, severely dysfunctional. Then, at 19, while attending a non-denominational church service, Jesus called me out. I found myself sobbing and on my knees, with full deep knowledge of my sin, His love - and how much I needed Him. Not the same experience as you, but He made it clear that I had a choice, and if I chose NOT Him, that path would be, for lack of a better term, bereft. Not "bad", per se, but absent Him. Which I realize now is hell on earth.
Everyone at some point makes this choice. Everyone.
I chose Him.
That was 42 years ago. It has been a bumpy road, and I cannot comprehend His patience with me. Nor can I conceive of this life not clinging to Him. I know He is always with me. (He promised He would be). He has healed my soul - even the parts I thought were beyond repair. (I am certain you know what I mean). My life has taken a course even I cannot believe, and it is my life! I strive to follow Him more closely every day. My life verse is Job 13:15 - "Though he slay me, yet will I hope in (trust in) him". He is my everything. God bless. You are on the right track.
Nadia Bolz-Weber led me here. I have read a long list of NDE stories, and yours ranks up there as one of the most resonant with me. Thank you for being willing to awkwardly speak your real story, and if a pile of apologies helped you do it, then bless the apologies.
You're also a hell of a writer. I hope you write books. Lots of them.
Thanks Spiral. Probably not what you want to hear but I tend to nuke my writing every several years. Planning to stick with this until I can get a Trust Index built somewhere. My fatal flaw is my humor and that I like to be left alone.
Wonderful, and wonderful timing for me personally! Congratulations on your growing family, who are lucky to have someone intellectually (and morally and emotionally) brave and honorable in their midst.
You are a good dude sir and please count me as a friend!
Your family is likewise lucky to have you. If you are ever out in Washington state let me know and I will buy you one of those Korean milkshakes my wife is crazy about.
Sorry what’s this about Korean milkshakes? My wife is from WA, so we’re up there now and again, and I have a long term relationship with milkshakes of all ethnicities.
Thank you for sharing your profound experience. I am a deconstructed-evangelical-former Christian. I had a falling out with Christianity for many, many reasons, and now half-jokingly refer to my spiritual condition as Christo-centric agnosticism.
I have had too many personal experiences that left me with a sense of something “more,” not be spiritually inclined (some of which happened prior to my religious conditioning) but I am also HIGHLY suspect of anyone who emphatically insists that they know the TRUTH of it all (the more insistent someone is, the less I believe them).
The stories I find the most I inspiring and resonant are the ones which are told with the utmost humility—that sense of “this is what I experienced and believe, but I fully admit it could all be baloney, because what do I know?” In my mind, this is the only way to HONESTLY express any “understanding” of the divine. However, I could be wrong!
All this to say, your story touched me deeply, and gives me hope that the most beautiful tenants of a religion I am extremely suspect of could hold some glimmer of an even more glorious reality. Some trusting, pure, childlike part of me yearns for this with all my self. Bottom line, I hope (and some part of me believes) that you are right. Thanks again, most sincerely.
Wow! So many people choose to proselytize after experiencing such things, using jargon to describe and interpret what’s happened to them. I appreciate your honesty and your refusal to try to tell others how to think about it. It makes sense that I would have found you through Lydia Bolz-Weber.
Thanks Kathleen. I’m glad it connected with you. I don’t feel qualified to tell people anything other than my own experience, so maybe that helps? I just realized yesterday that she’s a pastor so i have to go and check out some of her stuff on YouTube.
Because Nadia Bolz Weber said to read this, I did. Good advice!
You got me crying ❤️
I got the same, extremely good recommendation. Some Guy: thank you feels way too small. I’ve had my own experience with the Divine and the overlap with what I just read…words are not enough. Mystical, practically, wholly Good. Thank you for sharing your experience.
You are very welcome :)
Good tears I hope!
Yes, yes 🙌 I’m happy for your healing ❤️🩹 and the mystical truths that apply to us all...
Same! Wonderful recommendation!
Damn. I'm an atheist and this piece just blew me away. It deserves to be read.
Agnostic, and ditto. I seem to collect other people’s accounts of the more-than-physical, and (I hope this doesn’t sound like I’m not taking this seriously) this is top-shelf stuff. Some Guy: thanks for helping us all flesh out our humanity.
Thanks Brandon. It was an odd one. Felt strangely compelled to write it after a few PirateWires pieces on immortality.
Thanks Slaw. It was a very weird piece to write.
Holy crap, Some Guy.
I'm at work right now, and I can't stop crying. I just can't. I'm doing that weird thing women do when they don't want their mascara to run- holding my fingers under my eyes. Gah!!
I think I saw an angel once, when I was working in the hospital as a nursing student. I used to work in the mornings, doing vitals and baths before going to class at 9:00. I would go back to the oncology unit around 8:00 p.m., this time reversing it and getting everyone settled for the night.
Anyway- we had a new admit from the post partum unit. I was told she had just had a stillborn baby and been diagnosed with leukemia. I went into her room to get her vital signs, and when I looked at her, I was struck with terror. She was sitting at the edge of her bed, and sort of looked like she was glowing. And I felt like you would if you came upon an alien. I knew she was Other- that she was powerful and holy. I bolted out of the room. I still can't explain this madness. I don't know why I thought those things.
After gathering myself, I went back in. She looked more like a regular woman this time, and had a small smile. She was still intimidating- but it was manageable. She had dialed it down.
The next time I came into work, she was gone. Her name was Regina.
Thank you for your story- I loved it.
When I was young I thought “this stuff happens once every two thousand years, if ever.” And now I’m like “oh yeah, like one in six people.”
Thank you for sharing this. I am constantly hungry for these kinds of stories, exactly these kinds. Full of credulity and doubt and wonder and frustration. I have not had an experience like this, but I’ve held fast the hope that they are real regardless. When I read words like the ones you wrought with such integrity and humility and awareness, that hope gets new strength.
I believe more stories like these will emerge, increasingly many, until the apologies start to feel less necessary, until transcendence itself starts to seem almost normal, almost inevitable. At least for those who have eyes to see, and ears to hear.
Thanks J.E. It was an odd thing. Though I strangely hope it doesn’t become too common. That’s what I felt anyway, that the once was enough for a lifetime and I’d lose something by seeking it out again and again.
That makes sense. I was more thinking in terms of other people sharing similar experiences, so that it becomes less culturally awkward to talk about them.
You’re right. I misread.
Although I just don’t know how to transition still between “Who wants another flapjack” and “Yeah, so who wants to talk about experiences of the divine?” But I think I just need to accept He is in everything, even Flapjacks.
https://homeworkify.co.in/
Incredible piece. I have also felt the presence of God, and felt and feel much the same way about it. I never argue about it with anyone, why would I? It's like arguing with someone who is colorblind that blue and green are different colors. If you've seen, then you've seen. I can't explain it either, but it changed my life, and, like you, I do connect the awe I felt when my son was born to the experience.
I also felt comfort in knowing that I was always held, even in my darkest moments. It's difficult to talk about becuase it sounds like madness, but I can't deny what I experienced.
Likewise.
I’ve just repeatedly found there aren’t great conversational bridges to it so I don’t bring it up much. It’s also hard to transition away from it to “okay what restaurant are we going to?”
But then I try to remind myself that the small things are what matter and we are here because they’re actually big things at root and it helps. I don’t know if that directly touches on some of what you wrote but trying to keep up with it all.
The joy in the small things ("That was a great choice of restaurant!") is because they are all part of the big everything. The only genuinely small thing is a divisive, exclusive mindset 💜💚🧡
Astonishing. Just absolutely astonishing. Thank you.
Thanks Nadia. It was an odd one to write.
I am an old lady by outside indicators, 81 and wrinkles earned, who is about to embark on a new adventure... moving, because of death of spouse, from a 20 plus year home in S Idaho to an island near Seattle in order to be nearer family. I am fit. I am moving because one day I won't be fit, and it would be a burden to my family then to move me. Until reading your piece, I felt sorry for myself. Not now. Thank you. Now I will look differently when on island I see the blue water surrounding us all, that in our hands becomes the color of the palm.
Thank you. I borrow one other phrase that you might know from a book so entitled. You have reminded me that we are The Color of Water. Thank you.
I’m out on the Pacific Peninsula so we’ll be neighbors when you get out this way. My sincere condolences to you on the loss of a husband. I worry about that a lot for my own wife although I’m still young, my guess is she’s going to the longevity over me. I think our lives here on this world are real and our pain is real, but it helps me to remember the things I can see aren’t all the things there are. Your comment in particular really makes me feel this was worth writing. I still have all kinds of questions about what any of this stuff is or really means, but I’m reading my Bible more and more these days and trying to talk my wife into picking a church. I know we’re all supposed to be together, be neighbors, and work through it together. Whatever else, that’s the biggest piece.
Nadia Bolz-Weber suggested this read. I'm happy to have obliged. I experienced similar to you. Your descriptive talent is admirable. This God visit was in a night time Al-anon meeting in the annex of a Lutheran church in Hilo, Hawaii. I was in a children's classroom with crayon art and finger paintings on walls above the book shelves. "Experienced" is not the best adjective. I "lived" similar. Not an NDE and not a beloved ancestor reaching out but a timeless, space-less gathering of gold light, sparkling light, vibrant and full of Love. God pierced the veil but I didn't come to that conclusion until years later. This benevolent, accepting light took over from the light of the florescent bulbs in that evening meeting where fourteen of us gathered to heal from our brokenness. The Light was Love Itself. At the time I didn't know I was experiencing God.
Like you, my childhood was gasoline poured on a dumpster fire and I had been stuck inside. When I was 12, just before my Barmitzvah, I walked out to the end of an ocean jetty. It was made of huge boulders piled up to prevent erosion in a town called Carlsbad. I walked and jumped over the gaps until I found the end where the waves crashed and I looked up and told God to F*ck off. I had been molested by my older step brother and neither parent, though both knowing what happened, came to my side. I became an atheist. Life didn't get better. It stayed miserably the same until I left for college.
In that 12-Step room was a woman who was my cosmic mirror. No other way to explain it. When she put herself down by saying things like, "I'm so stupid", I would say, in my mind, "Judy, you're not stupid. You are a child of God". As I said those words, they reverberated back to me as, "Robert, your not stupid, you're a child of God". Then I saw Angels on either side of her. They were, now that I have had time to reflect, a mirror image of myself. They were My Angels. I didn't have money for a therapist but I did think I was going insane.
Just before this happened, I had recovered from a rare parasite that had invaded my spinal chord and brain. I survived but painfully so. Then, unrelated to that illness, while driving one night from Hilo town to Pahoa, the bright idea of running off the road and killing myself seemed like a great idea. Probably the darkest moment of my life. Three times I went to that darkest of black places and three times I was pulled out wondering how I got there in the first place. Six months later God broke silence and pierced the veil to let me know that perfection is not what we suppose it to be.
Thank you for your essay. Just because I had this illumination doesn't mean I can call it back. It is a remembrance and like any blissful engagement, it likes to be bolstered by other's stories of Love reaching out and squeezing our hearts.
Hey. I’m a follower of Jesus and I just want to say- none of this is weird to me. At all.
I think smart progressive people (generally my folks) do ourselves a huge disservice by creating a mental framework of ‘the supernatural is for those folks not us’.
I loved reading your experience.
And. . .There’s more out there. There are other smart skeptical people who’ve had visions and experienced signs and wonders. There’s a lot of good life. Abundant life. And pain. And love.
Seek and you’ll find. I wonder if something (maybe the same something that led you to remind your readers how embarrassing and weird this all is,countless times in this essay?) is keeping you from seeking.
Praying for that ‘something’ to get quieter and for the seeking urge to get stronger. Because . . .yeah. Just because.
Understood how the embarrassment and constant apologies might seem off but tried to write this as I feel it day to day, warts and all. It is just feels like a strange thing to bring up over pancakes when everyone is talking about movies or something. I’m still looking, I promise. Ol’ Josh has his hooks in me pretty deep at this point and just trying to find one of his build sites so I can start taking the family there.
glad to hear it. :)
You know, something that really helped me sort through some things—as a person who was always a bit too nerdy for her family’s take on faith—was finding the Eastern Orthodox tradition. I mean, I’m not particularly drawn to the actual experience of the services, and I don’t agree with their stance on women and a whole bunch of other trivial things…
But there’s a depth of scholarship there, along with an unembarrassed take on the supernatural that just really spoke to me. The Lord of Spirits podcast was a goldmine for me.
Also- very different but maybe also possibly helpful? there are amazing voices coming out of some of the African evangelical churches- sure there is some chaff to sort out but there’s amazing wheat too, that’s like, woah. For instance John Mulinde is someone I just can’t ignore.
Anyway. . .wishing you the best on your journey with Josh. He’s. . .the real deal.
Hey! So I wanted to name that those folks I named were helpful to me specifically regarding the absolute wildness of the supernatural. Which might not be what you want more of. A bit of the deep end, so to speak! But In terms of just good thoughtful people wrestling with big ideas of the divine,
I wonder if you’d like Jonathan Pageau’s The Symbolic World. And David Bentley Hart has some stuff on YouTube. I realize I’m recommending all these E. orthodox guys even though I am Protestant (Free Methodist, to be specific)- go figure.
The only other thing I will say is that people are everywhere. . .and we are pretty universally messed up. So it can be hard to find a ‘build site’ you love or even find material online that you love without exception. Don’t let it discourage you. Remember everyone else is also just trying to get to know Him, in their own way, and that I truly believe we grow by learning to love. And I’ve come to believe that sometimes love for ‘thinking types’ just means learning to be still and be taught, even if you know you don’t fully agree with the teacher on some cognitive level. That there’s something happening in that humility of just showing up and trying to learn what they have to offer- that maybe helps us become a bit more like Him after all.
Wishing you many blessings.
Okay, I’m putting David Bentley Hart on right now before my son wakes up. So just know I’m listening to a conference about if the mind is a machine.
And you’re right. I need to be less of a jerk and just bite the bullet and go. There’s a Catholic Church my mother in law goes to that she would probably just love for us to go to as well and I’ll talk to my wife about it when she gets up. I get way too up in my head about this stuff.
I love Jonathan Pageau! His podcast, Rod Dreher (author whose Substack sent me here), the Pints with Aquinas podcast, and David Bentley Hart's translation of the New Testament are what led me to revert to Catholicism after being some weird mix of New Age Jungian who's kind of into Jesus.
I will definitely check those folks out. Are there any good podcasts you’d recommend that they’re on? I ingest a lot of things via audio these days because I’m chasing around a toddler.
Ancient Faith Radio is a wonderful free source for all things Orthodox. These guys are the original church of Josh; I credit them with saving my sanity a few years ago. And your story left me in tears (good tears). Keep writing!
You might look for a United Church of Christ (formerly Congregational). I discovered them a few years ago and was drawn to their progressive stance on social justice issues.
I’ll look into it! Our biggest problem is that my wife sleeps in and feel different about this than I do. We’re figuring out a solution.
With me, it was also a close relative. For many years. I was a toddler. My (biological) parents were too screwed up to notice - even after a few hospital visits. Doctors missed it too. At eight, I had an experience I cannot explain but I think you will understand. I was surrounded by light, and I heard a voice say, "Don't worry; you are mine". I had no idea what it meant, but I deep down just KNEW that I was loved, and that I was going to be all right. I grew up Catholic. Church and eight years of parochial school did nothing for me. I thought the Church was a joke.
My adolescent years were, to put it mildly, severely dysfunctional. Then, at 19, while attending a non-denominational church service, Jesus called me out. I found myself sobbing and on my knees, with full deep knowledge of my sin, His love - and how much I needed Him. Not the same experience as you, but He made it clear that I had a choice, and if I chose NOT Him, that path would be, for lack of a better term, bereft. Not "bad", per se, but absent Him. Which I realize now is hell on earth.
Everyone at some point makes this choice. Everyone.
I chose Him.
That was 42 years ago. It has been a bumpy road, and I cannot comprehend His patience with me. Nor can I conceive of this life not clinging to Him. I know He is always with me. (He promised He would be). He has healed my soul - even the parts I thought were beyond repair. (I am certain you know what I mean). My life has taken a course even I cannot believe, and it is my life! I strive to follow Him more closely every day. My life verse is Job 13:15 - "Though he slay me, yet will I hope in (trust in) him". He is my everything. God bless. You are on the right track.
Nadia Bolz-Weber led me here. I have read a long list of NDE stories, and yours ranks up there as one of the most resonant with me. Thank you for being willing to awkwardly speak your real story, and if a pile of apologies helped you do it, then bless the apologies.
You're also a hell of a writer. I hope you write books. Lots of them.
Thanks Spiral. Probably not what you want to hear but I tend to nuke my writing every several years. Planning to stick with this until I can get a Trust Index built somewhere. My fatal flaw is my humor and that I like to be left alone.
Disagree.
Wonderful, and wonderful timing for me personally! Congratulations on your growing family, who are lucky to have someone intellectually (and morally and emotionally) brave and honorable in their midst.
You are a good dude sir and please count me as a friend!
Your family is likewise lucky to have you. If you are ever out in Washington state let me know and I will buy you one of those Korean milkshakes my wife is crazy about.
Sorry what’s this about Korean milkshakes? My wife is from WA, so we’re up there now and again, and I have a long term relationship with milkshakes of all ethnicities.
Lol, it’s what I call bubble tea because it annoys my wife and because they’re obviously just milkshakes and she won’t admit to it.
Likewise if y’all ever get down to New Orleans!!!
This was beautiful and compelling. Thank you Some Guy. I have no difficulty believing in your vision. Rod Dreher sent me here.
I will have to send him (and Nadia) a note thanking them.
Likewise , Rod Dreher sent me here.
Ditto.
Thank you for sharing your profound experience. I am a deconstructed-evangelical-former Christian. I had a falling out with Christianity for many, many reasons, and now half-jokingly refer to my spiritual condition as Christo-centric agnosticism.
I have had too many personal experiences that left me with a sense of something “more,” not be spiritually inclined (some of which happened prior to my religious conditioning) but I am also HIGHLY suspect of anyone who emphatically insists that they know the TRUTH of it all (the more insistent someone is, the less I believe them).
The stories I find the most I inspiring and resonant are the ones which are told with the utmost humility—that sense of “this is what I experienced and believe, but I fully admit it could all be baloney, because what do I know?” In my mind, this is the only way to HONESTLY express any “understanding” of the divine. However, I could be wrong!
All this to say, your story touched me deeply, and gives me hope that the most beautiful tenants of a religion I am extremely suspect of could hold some glimmer of an even more glorious reality. Some trusting, pure, childlike part of me yearns for this with all my self. Bottom line, I hope (and some part of me believes) that you are right. Thanks again, most sincerely.
Wow! So many people choose to proselytize after experiencing such things, using jargon to describe and interpret what’s happened to them. I appreciate your honesty and your refusal to try to tell others how to think about it. It makes sense that I would have found you through Lydia Bolz-Weber.
Thanks Kathleen. I’m glad it connected with you. I don’t feel qualified to tell people anything other than my own experience, so maybe that helps? I just realized yesterday that she’s a pastor so i have to go and check out some of her stuff on YouTube.
Yes - she's also the author of a few amazing books.
Sounds like I have some reading to do.
Just wow!! Amazing, and beautifully articulated for something ineffable. Thank you for the handful of ocean, Guy.
Thanks Julia! Tried to lay it out there as honestly as I could.
Thanks for writing about the ineffable.
You are welcome. This was a weird one.