Yowza! The Word according to Some Guy, old & new testimony, with sermon to follow! (And a beautiful poetic image of the hidden sun revealed in illuminated dust.) You win the internet tonight, buddy!
And thanks for the review of the Dawkins-Peterson debate & saving me from having to listen to it (although I am feeling a dark attraction to it - a bit of horrid fascination for some outrage porn 😎).
Also nominalism and idealism are so inherently anti-life and reality that it moves me to pity that someone could dredge up word count.
Holding a spark of wonder and curiosity at the ”universe” is to acknowledge being part of the whole. Everything is interconnected - from a mote of pollen to our sun.
I would like to request Josh gifting sentience (generalized AI) on a shop vac or CNC. Please don’t make it like WallE because a lonely robot brings me to tears. Oddly reminds me of an old show I remember fondly https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jose_Chung%27s_Doomsday_Defense
I loved every bit of this. And I would go so far as to say that even believing Christians are likely to spend part of their lives as cultural Christians. I’ve had times when I’ve had a deep and mystical relationship to my faith and there have been long stretches when I was showing up because showing up is what I do. There are seasons in faith like there are seasons in marriage, or parenthood, or any other part of life. There’s beauty in showing up even when your heart is not at that exact moment on fire with God’s love.
I suspect that you are aware of this; other readers may not be. Culture Protestantism was "a flow of Protestant intellectual life in Germany during the decades from 1860 to the inter-war period ." "The theologian Albrecht Ritschl is considered the "father of cultural Protestantism". For him, ethical action was part of the path to the kingdom of God , which was interpreted as an adaptation to the respective human reality. Some of Ritschl's students later became spokesmen for cultural Protestantism ( Martin Rade , Adolf Harnack and Ernst Troeltsch )." See https://second.wiki/wiki/kulturprotestantismus. David Bentley Hart has a fascinating analysis of American religion: ""Most Americans think of themselves as Christians. But the only religion in America that ever flourished was America. […] Christianity has never succeeded in planting itself in America. Our religion is a kind of Orphic post-Christian mystery religion based on wealth, power and one’s personal relationship with a kind of gnostic Jesus."(Source: https://afkimel.wordpress.com/.../david-bentley-hart-the.../) From a Fb post by Rob Grayson, an insightful interpreter of DBH's work.
I enjoyed the piece, and amongst other things it has convinced me to avoid the Dawkins-Peterson 'debate', which sounds like it went as badly as could have been predicted.
A lot of this reminds me of the meme of two scientists at a climate change conference, where one turns to the other and asks, "what if it's all a big hoax and we make the world a better place for no reason." Climate change alarmists love this meme. Climate change skeptics find it pretty annoying.
To analogize to cultural Christianity, I think the new atheists have changed how young people view Christianity from 'Christianity is just being nice to people' (love/ forgiveness/ faith hope & charity), which is what I grew up with in the UK in the 1990s, to Christianity as a source of cruelty, corruption, and oppression. Crusades and witch burnings and pedophile priests (as you uh, touch on, above). A lot of secular liberal Americans I meet really really do not think cultural Christianity will build a better world.
If I think about my own changing views (in many ways following a similar but much milder path to your own, 'mystic experience' included), one of the first big things was to realize that actually, Christianity was a positive change historically. Like, in Northern Europe the 10th century for example. (Though this doesn't necessarily make it better than moderate modern day Islam for example). That later made me receptive to the philosophical proofs (which I'd encountered in university philosophy but wasn't moved by).
I think your post helps with this 'PR campaign', and I heartily endorse the idea that ordinary individuals being part of a community and engaging in community works and charity is the best way to engage. These things are proven to have great mental health benefits, whether one believes in God or not. But perhaps even more importantly, what defenders of cultural Christianity spend their time talking about will influence how it's seen by outsiders, and I think the more posts we have about building community and helping your neighbours, the better.
Eh. People are leaving the church in droves, and it’s probably for a reason! I see no need to hop back onto a sinking ship.
The church is not a community “jostling together in a common direction,” it's a group with membership requirements. You can join as an outsider, but if you really want to be part of it, eventually you’ll be asked to get with the program or slowly shut out. Not always! But generally, unless you plan on converting anyway, all of your relationships are a ticking time bomb.
I tried pretty hard when I was younger to fit in at churches as a non-believer. It did not go well. It went so badly I won’t try it again
. My experiments were with small Baptist churches in small towns. I think it could maybe work with a Quaker meeting or maybe an Episcopal church. Certainly a Universalist Unitarian church would be fine. I’ve never lived in a large city but I’m guessing there would be a wider range of religious options there.
I think you're onto something in your impressions that you might do well at an Episcopalian or Unitarian church. I have pretty extensive experience with both (though in fairness it was only one location of each; I'm sure there's some variety in the vibes and sensibilities of different churches within both institutions), and I found people to be kind and welcoming and without the (sometimes quite overt) "you're going to hell if you don't do things my way" vibes you often find in evangelical or Catholic churches.
Also, in case you don't know, the Anglican musical tradition is breathtakingly beautiful. If you go to an Episcopalian church with a good choir that sings the traditional pieces, you'll hear a lot of really gorgeous music.
Amazing piece! 💕 And I know there is little time in your busy life, but I think you would love reading the writings of Charles Peirce if you haven't already. He was a 19th century polymath/inventor/mathematician/scientist/logician/philosopher who insisted on Math and Human Experience as the basis of all discovery. You will be hooked. :) Read the man himself, not the commentators.
I have problems with this. I am not Jesus centric. anymore than I am Buddha or Yawallah. And I love sufi poetry. BUT jc is as big in my "sacred heart" as they are.
I cant see him as the Middle Ages Warrior with sword and touched by god, as you do, by grace of god, not meaning as an insult, and to adopt his meaning towards
As is build up through roman emp and then european middle ages Knights in shining armor. Nah.
Modernity allows me to cross all fronts.
Fund with AI pix yuh.
I still draw my own. Or Mosh Pit. Only use ai for mechanicals...
This is my favorite piece of writing of yours. Love it!
Thanks Nuke! Share the good word of Josh around the congregation.
Yowza! The Word according to Some Guy, old & new testimony, with sermon to follow! (And a beautiful poetic image of the hidden sun revealed in illuminated dust.) You win the internet tonight, buddy!
And thanks for the review of the Dawkins-Peterson debate & saving me from having to listen to it (although I am feeling a dark attraction to it - a bit of horrid fascination for some outrage porn 😎).
I loved this! So much to discuss but, life needs my typing thumbs elsewhere at the moment.
Long live Hitchens! Long live humanism!
Also nominalism and idealism are so inherently anti-life and reality that it moves me to pity that someone could dredge up word count.
Holding a spark of wonder and curiosity at the ”universe” is to acknowledge being part of the whole. Everything is interconnected - from a mote of pollen to our sun.
I would like to request Josh gifting sentience (generalized AI) on a shop vac or CNC. Please don’t make it like WallE because a lonely robot brings me to tears. Oddly reminds me of an old show I remember fondly https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jose_Chung%27s_Doomsday_Defense
You have been writing things that I have feel a strong connection to. This is no exception.
Nice one.
I loved every bit of this. And I would go so far as to say that even believing Christians are likely to spend part of their lives as cultural Christians. I’ve had times when I’ve had a deep and mystical relationship to my faith and there have been long stretches when I was showing up because showing up is what I do. There are seasons in faith like there are seasons in marriage, or parenthood, or any other part of life. There’s beauty in showing up even when your heart is not at that exact moment on fire with God’s love.
Brilliant, funny, and eminently thoughtful. Your writing is inspiring and important. Thank you for your hard work crafting such a wonderful article.
I suspect that you are aware of this; other readers may not be. Culture Protestantism was "a flow of Protestant intellectual life in Germany during the decades from 1860 to the inter-war period ." "The theologian Albrecht Ritschl is considered the "father of cultural Protestantism". For him, ethical action was part of the path to the kingdom of God , which was interpreted as an adaptation to the respective human reality. Some of Ritschl's students later became spokesmen for cultural Protestantism ( Martin Rade , Adolf Harnack and Ernst Troeltsch )." See https://second.wiki/wiki/kulturprotestantismus. David Bentley Hart has a fascinating analysis of American religion: ""Most Americans think of themselves as Christians. But the only religion in America that ever flourished was America. […] Christianity has never succeeded in planting itself in America. Our religion is a kind of Orphic post-Christian mystery religion based on wealth, power and one’s personal relationship with a kind of gnostic Jesus."(Source: https://afkimel.wordpress.com/.../david-bentley-hart-the.../) From a Fb post by Rob Grayson, an insightful interpreter of DBH's work.
I enjoyed the piece, and amongst other things it has convinced me to avoid the Dawkins-Peterson 'debate', which sounds like it went as badly as could have been predicted.
A lot of this reminds me of the meme of two scientists at a climate change conference, where one turns to the other and asks, "what if it's all a big hoax and we make the world a better place for no reason." Climate change alarmists love this meme. Climate change skeptics find it pretty annoying.
To analogize to cultural Christianity, I think the new atheists have changed how young people view Christianity from 'Christianity is just being nice to people' (love/ forgiveness/ faith hope & charity), which is what I grew up with in the UK in the 1990s, to Christianity as a source of cruelty, corruption, and oppression. Crusades and witch burnings and pedophile priests (as you uh, touch on, above). A lot of secular liberal Americans I meet really really do not think cultural Christianity will build a better world.
If I think about my own changing views (in many ways following a similar but much milder path to your own, 'mystic experience' included), one of the first big things was to realize that actually, Christianity was a positive change historically. Like, in Northern Europe the 10th century for example. (Though this doesn't necessarily make it better than moderate modern day Islam for example). That later made me receptive to the philosophical proofs (which I'd encountered in university philosophy but wasn't moved by).
I think your post helps with this 'PR campaign', and I heartily endorse the idea that ordinary individuals being part of a community and engaging in community works and charity is the best way to engage. These things are proven to have great mental health benefits, whether one believes in God or not. But perhaps even more importantly, what defenders of cultural Christianity spend their time talking about will influence how it's seen by outsiders, and I think the more posts we have about building community and helping your neighbours, the better.
Eh. People are leaving the church in droves, and it’s probably for a reason! I see no need to hop back onto a sinking ship.
The church is not a community “jostling together in a common direction,” it's a group with membership requirements. You can join as an outsider, but if you really want to be part of it, eventually you’ll be asked to get with the program or slowly shut out. Not always! But generally, unless you plan on converting anyway, all of your relationships are a ticking time bomb.
I tried pretty hard when I was younger to fit in at churches as a non-believer. It did not go well. It went so badly I won’t try it again
. My experiments were with small Baptist churches in small towns. I think it could maybe work with a Quaker meeting or maybe an Episcopal church. Certainly a Universalist Unitarian church would be fine. I’ve never lived in a large city but I’m guessing there would be a wider range of religious options there.
I think you're onto something in your impressions that you might do well at an Episcopalian or Unitarian church. I have pretty extensive experience with both (though in fairness it was only one location of each; I'm sure there's some variety in the vibes and sensibilities of different churches within both institutions), and I found people to be kind and welcoming and without the (sometimes quite overt) "you're going to hell if you don't do things my way" vibes you often find in evangelical or Catholic churches.
Also, in case you don't know, the Anglican musical tradition is breathtakingly beautiful. If you go to an Episcopalian church with a good choir that sings the traditional pieces, you'll hear a lot of really gorgeous music.
I love this so much.
You have a lot of good stuff in this post.
But, it’s much too long.
But maybe it should’ve been three separate posts. Or five.
Or maybe you just need to be better at editing your own writing.
But you’re definitely on the right track with the content, IMNSHO.
One of the best things I’ve read. You get this! Thank you!
Amazing piece! 💕 And I know there is little time in your busy life, but I think you would love reading the writings of Charles Peirce if you haven't already. He was a 19th century polymath/inventor/mathematician/scientist/logician/philosopher who insisted on Math and Human Experience as the basis of all discovery. You will be hooked. :) Read the man himself, not the commentators.
I have problems with this. I am not Jesus centric. anymore than I am Buddha or Yawallah. And I love sufi poetry. BUT jc is as big in my "sacred heart" as they are.
I cant see him as the Middle Ages Warrior with sword and touched by god, as you do, by grace of god, not meaning as an insult, and to adopt his meaning towards
As is build up through roman emp and then european middle ages Knights in shining armor. Nah.
Modernity allows me to cross all fronts.
Fund with AI pix yuh.
I still draw my own. Or Mosh Pit. Only use ai for mechanicals...
I have ony glanced so far.